The Gaping Hole

thomas vance Published:

Now that the Affordable Care Act has been ok’d by the Supreme Court the Act’s provisions are starting to kick in and the Act should be fully in effect by 2014. The United States will finally join the ranks of all the worlds modern countries that provide health care to all their citizens as a right of citizenship. Workers need no longer fear losing their health insurance because they lost their jobs. Now there is only one thing lacking to make healthcare complete, dental care. Dental care , as the health professionals always tell us, is an important part of ones overall health. An infection as a result of poor dental health can end in death . A modest dental plan added as part of an overall health insurance package would allow us to truthfully claim to have the best healthcare system in the world.

Our social safety net is also lacking, but in the safety net, there is not just a small tear, but a gaping hole that destroys the lives of a good many of our citizens and their families without discrimination or bias. A person finishes school and goes to work. They build up savings, start a family, buy a house and somewhere down the line they, through no fault of their own lose their job. Now days at least they can keep their health insurance, and apply for unemployment. The blow to the financial health of the family falls hard , even though only one of the working adults has lost their job because the family finances

were based on two people working. This is where the hole in the safety net begins to open. Our family is getting by on smart money management and unemployment, at least until the unemployment runs out!

This is where the hole in our financial safety net opens wide. When the unemployment insurance runs out the social safety net, when our family needs it most, is withdrawn and our family is left to fate and their own devices. By this time they are one or two paydays from bankruptcy and homelessness. Unless a job comes along or our worker can qualify for disability or is old enough to draw regular Social Security the family’s financial goose is cooked. Even if the worker qualifies for Social Security Disability it can take so long for approval the family goes bankrupt while they are waiting as happened to my family when I became too disabled to work.

In the Cincinnati suburb of Delhi there is a goofy baseball game played where the male participants dress in exaggerated women’s clothing and play baseball for charity. The donations raised at this annual event are used to help pay the bills of people who have been waiting so long for their Social Security Disability to be approved they are about to lose everything they have worked for their whole lives.

In the richest country in the world this shouldn’t happen. A program to address both of these situations would go a long way to end the situational poverty created by the holes in our social safety net. We should create some kind of support program for people in these situations. A retraining program with benefits for those whose unemployment is running out, and a limited benefit program to keep those who are simply waiting for Social Security Disability approval from slipping into abject poverty while they wait would do as much to end working poverty in America as Social Security did to end senior poverty when it was created.

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  • ukfan...that was supposed to be a joke too. Sorry, couldn't ya' see me wink?

  • 1713...that was suppose to be a joke....they seem to put a label on everything and everybody ....there is RIGHT or WRONG....and everyone knows which is which no matter what name or label you put on it.

  • No ukfan, I am a moderate and 671 is an ardent right winger. If you agree with 671, that kinda makes you a right winger too.

  • It is odd but I agree a little bit with both of you...oh god does that make me a moderate....

  • 671: If Romney gets in with a Republican Congres, they will privatize Social Security and turn medicare into a voucher program. So much for being the lesser of the two evils on your non-entitlement programs. Those 54 and under who have been paying into them all of their working lives will get the shaft so that Romney and Co. can give larger tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy. That ain't just "raiding" the fund, that is stealing it. Lesser of the two evils...ha! Could you opinion have been swayed by Fox News?

  • ukfan...I don't think you folded either. I, too, am not a democrat or republican. We want the same thing, but our ideas just happen to disagree. That's what's GREAT about OUR COUNTRY. I'm not WILD about Romney either. But, I just happen to THINK that he is the lesser of two evils. That is my OPINION, but that doesn't necessarily make it so and it doesn't necessarily make it not so. And, by the way, I don't think Social Security OR Medicare are entitlements, since the Workers of America, PAID for them. But, BOTH parties have raided those funds for years, to pay for unwanted and unneeded things that are ridiculous. Have a nice day.

  • From Fact Check.Org...........TAMPA, Fla. — Paul Ryan’s acceptance speech at the Republican convention contained several false claims and misleading statements. Delegates cheered as the vice presidential nominee: Accused President Obama’s health care law of funneling money away from Medicare “at the expense of the elderly.” In fact, Medicare’s chief actuary says the law “substantially improves” the system’s finances, and Ryan himself has embraced the same savings. Accused Obama of doing “exactly nothing” about recommendations of a bipartisan deficit commission — which Ryan himself helped scuttle. Claimed the American people were “cut out” of stimulus spending. Actually, more than a quarter of all stimulus dollars went for tax relief for workers. Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office. Blamed Obama for the loss of a AAA credit rating for the U.S. Actually, Standard & Poor’s blamed the downgrade on the uncompromising stands of both Republicans and Democrats.

  • 1713...I am not folding ... also I am not a democrat or are correct in everything that you have said here and also what I have posted. I just don't want to get into childish behavior by name calling. I still stand by what i have said here on this postings. I agree with you we don't need Romney in the White House. We need someone who knows how to compromise and get laws passed that will help the middle class and the poor not the rich that are doing very well.

  • Comeon ukfan, you are folding waaaayy too easily! The stuff that 671 and Mach570 and the Republicans are pushing is not just 'different opinions" on how to get to what is best for our country...and you know it. There is nothing in the Republican platform that is good for our country...Nada! Nearly everything that 671 has posted has been a lie told by some Republican. I am not accusing 671 of being a liar (like he did me), because I don't think that he knows any better. Like Steve Schmidt said about Rep. Todd Akin recently, "You can't fix stupid." He certainly is a hypocrite though. That is no doubt. Yeah, everybody needs to vote, but the Republicans are trying to tilt the table in their favor with these new voter registration laws. Several states, including Florida (once again, a battleground), have effectively closed down registration drives by organizations like the League of Women Voters, which have traditionally helped to register new voters; some states are shortening early-voting periods or prohibiting voting on the Sunday before election day; several are insisting that registrants provide documentary proof of their citizenship. Most importantly—and most visibly—roughly two dozen states have significantly tightened their identification rules for voting since 2003, and the pace of change has accelerated rapidly in the last two years. Ten states have now passed laws demanding that voters possess a current government-issued photo ID, and several others have enacted measures slightly less strict. A few more may take similar steps before November—although legal challenges could keep some of the laws from taking effect.

  • Me too.....

  • Thank you, ukfan. I feel alot better now. Go Big Blue and God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!

  • That's okay we all get a little heated on here from time to time. We all want what's best for the country we just have different opinions on how to get there. No need to apologize. I was being over dramatic when I said you lie. You were only saying what you had heard ffrom the media. And I agree everyone needs to vote no matter what party you are for.

  • ukfan...It is very apparent that I have offended you. Believe me, when I say, that was NOT my intention, and I TRULY APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. I let my emotions get the best of me and that was VERY childish. I was linking you with 1713, and that is VERY wrong. I, too, want what is best for me and America. I also want to help those who TRY to help themselves. That's a part of what this nation stands for. But, every day, I see able-bodied people, mixed in with those who can't help themselves, standing side by side, with their hand out. And then, if the current administration has its way, you don't even have to look for a job to draw unemployment. I just don't want the government forcing me to pay for those who won't help themselves. I won't apologize for that. At this time, we can agree to disagree. I just hope it stays that way. I do hope you will accept my heartfelt apology. GET OUT AND VOTE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!

  • That's ok, mach570. Your posts have been RIGHT ON. And ukfan DID call me a liar, which I am NOT. GO BIG BLUE!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Yes you are right it was 617 geez ...people get a handle....anyways no you have not called me anything....I just hate it when other people post their beliefs and then when you respond they get all bent out of shape and then start acting like a child and start calling names. I am really interested in this election and only want what is best for me and the country. Not everybody can agree on everything and really that is what makes this country great. You are free to speak your mind. But lately it is getting harder to do because of people like 617. I hate to respond to them because it makes me look as bad but I will not be silenced when I feel that I am right. Now if you PROVE me wrong that's a different story. EVERYONE needs to vote. But then again that is another problem...the Republicans are trying to suppress the vote in key states. They say it's because of voter fraud. There is no voter fraud in these states. And the people it hurts most is the middle class and poor voters. Oh well everyone be sure to vote. I will get off my soap box now.

  • UK Fan I think you are talking about 617. I wish they would use some kind of name. I hope that I havent called you a name or belittle people. When I talk about someones beliefs I try not to call them names and or belittle them.I was calling you a weak debator on the pretense that the way a lot of people like to bedate on these forums is to research stats and quotes that can only be found with research on certain sites they know will have the info they want. I too am like you I have no time to research a lot of things if it isnt already handy and when I do I do to satisfy me.So I guess I was just upset because I thought there were at least two good people on this post that would debate without getting mean and nasty. I like writing on this during breaks and lunch just to see what people have to say. My main concern is to keep people interested in the political process and VOTE. If the liberals have their way and this country turns into a european style socialist country making us the same as every other democratic country in the world I guess I may have to find another way of finding a country that stands for freedom and the democratic republican sytem that AMERICA was founded on. All I know is I hope that at least 80% of the PEOPLE vote on the socialist country so that Ill know thats what the people want. I just dont think it is. So at least help me get people out to vote. If the liberals win then so be it. I fight for the US as Barrack Obama as my Commander and Chief and I will continue if he is reelected. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • I am not the one doing the name calling. You want to berate me but what about 1713...he started this by calling me a monkey. ( I know that sounds childish ) but I will not be called out for something and then you let the other pass. I do research some things on my own. But I work for a living and have a family to take care of so I don't have a lot of free time. So you are telling me that all the news we hear on the media is false??? I think not. Granted they do lean mostly one way or the other. I am a free thinker and I make up my own mind. They say you can catch more flies with honey than you can vinegar....they forgot to tell 1713 that though. If you want to push your agenda you don't call people stupid and belittle them because they don't believe everything that you say. And yes...UK all the way 2013.....

  • uk fan I cant believe that you use CNN as your source of info. We all know they are liberal thinking and will distort the truth just like Fox will. All the news are one sided or the other. The bad thing about it is we need to read all the laws that are written and make our decisions on that. I do agree though if we cant depend on the people that pass the laws to read them how do they expect us to. So Uk I guess you are as weak a debater as everyone else.Me personally I try to debate what I see with my own two eyes and feel in my heart and what GOD and Jesus tells me(OH no 1731 will preach to me again). A bill that says up front that it will provide 80% of the American people with insurance cant be good because in order to do this people who work and pay Federal incvome taxs will need to pay for this not the goverment SUPRISE. Some of you must think the goverment earns its own money.LOLLOLLOL.If a president who says that successful people didnt get ahead on there own that the goverment did it for them then you know we are in trouble. Oh by the way NBC news Fox CNN and MSNBC brodcast both these stories and both republicans and liberals are in agreement.So at least do what 731 and research things until you find something that can support your name calling and post them. GOOOOOOO BIG BLUE. ONE THING IS DEFFINATE UK IS #1.

  • 1713 I cant believe that there are really regular people out there that think that the goverment is why they were able to get ahead in life. I thought Obama's effert to change America was what that thought process was. I agree that goverment arranged for the roads to be laid and I cant agree about the schools even though now a days the goverment runs the shools more than they should. By saying this your saying that because of the roads all the poor people should be making a good living?? Why aren't they. I would like to think that I got ahead in life because I got up off by behind and worked hard. Just because that road was there to make it to where I could get to work dosn't mean at all that I am successful. I guauntee you if that road wasnt there I would have still got off my butt and work and because I did and paid taxes I and every other tax payer allowed the goverment to pave the road. So as you can see I think liberals and I guess you see things backward.The hard woking people allow the goverment to provide what they do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!When we get away from that and let the goverment dictate more to how we do earn money then we are in trouble.

  • Sorry 617 didn't mean to leave you hanging........1713 I thought that maybe you were a different debater, bu when all you have is blamming people for watching fox news and being right wing radicals. Why is that????? We all have our opinion and the way I see it do we want the goverment to take care of us the way that liberals are trying to prove and initiate or do we still want some kind of say what we do with our lives???? The bottom line if you want the goverment to take care of you you will never be convinced that this takes your life away. I think that there are still plenty of people in this country that would like to tell the goverment what to do. WE THE PEOPLE.

  • Some people like 671 just can't handle the truth. He lives in the FOX bubble where all other the other news is full of "lies and half truths" (what in the H-E-double hockey sticks does that mean...kinda like being a little pregnant!). FOX news just supports his own narrow world view that just happens to be that of the ultra rich, whom he unwittingly helps to carry their water. It is probably best that he just not respond as he is going to blow a head gasket or something.

  • Just calm down 671 you don't have to respond to me. But you are the one who started calling names on here not me. You don't even know me yet you have called me stupid and referred to me as a monkey. If I have stepped on your toes I am sorry. Some can't take the heat. I won't try to respond to your once again rant about my life that you know nothing about. And you are right about one thing ....I too have better things to do than to try and convince you of anything because you take everything as an insult.

  • UKfan....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And what, EXACTLY, spending CUTS are being made? HMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!CNN isn't quite the place to get the REAL TRUTH. Sorry, CNN is notorious for telling HALF TRUTHS. Try to get your information from a RELIABLE source. Debating with you is like a person(me) going to a duel to face an unarmed person(you). You must be living a very unhappy life, that's SAD. Therefore, I will no longer be responding to any of your posts. When you start posting WHOLE TRUTHS, then maybe. I have better things to do. BYE!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 671...oh by the way...During an interview on Wednesday on CNN, O’Brien told Pawlenty that one of the presumptive Republican presidential candidate’s ads falsely claimed that President Barack Obama had cut $716 billion from Medicare — but the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) had determined that it was actually reduction in spending, not benefits

  • WOW, UKfan. I believe that you were the one, that called me a LIAR. Seems like you are the one with your panties in a wad, just because I disagreed with you. Sorry, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

  • 671...This is just a blog don't get your panties in a wad. Just because some of us disagree with you doesn't mean you need to get nasty.

  • WOW!!!UKfan, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. There's an old proverb that says, "IT IS BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND BE THOUGHT A FOOL, THAN TO SPEAK AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT." I'm sorry that I misjudged you. From one of your earlier posts, I thought, you know, UKfan might just have a modicum of sense. But your latest post, just removed all doubt. Shame on me? No, shame on you for believing all of that LIBERAL CRAP. I got my information from the Congressional Budget Office. HMMMM!!!! How about that? I wouldn't call someone a LIAR before looking in the mirror and see one looking back at you. History will show who's right. Believe it or not, I hope it's you. But it won't be with the current government.

  • Ah 1713, I knew, at some point, you would compare yourself to Jesus. But you know what, I know Jesus, He lives with me, He goes with me everywhere I go, and believe me, YOU AIN'T NO JESUS, by any stretch of the imagination. Am I perfect? By no means. I fail Him every day. But you know what, I'm forgiven. Truth be known, I suspect I give more to the poor, THAT REALLY NEED IT, than you do. And yes, we did go to school, and used the roads, and other things that the government provided. But how did the government pay for those things? HMMMMMM!!!!!!! You seem to forget that the PEOPLE paid taxes for that, you poor dumb sap. When I went to college, I paid for it. I had a wife, two children, and worked three jobs. I paid for it myself. I was too proud to ask for help from the Government or anyone else. Can you say that? I doubt it. I had a God fearing mother that taught us right from wrong. And I have a God fearing wife that has taught our children to do the right thing. Can you say that? From the way you talk, I doubt it. You can't possibly know whether I go to church or not. It just so happens that I go to a church that believes in the whole WORD OF GOD. It sounds like you don't go at all, or you go to one where some, so-called preacher, teaches half truths and quotes only those parts that fits their agenda. "Thou shall not add nor take one tittle away from God's Word" OOPS!!!!That doesn't fit your agenda, does it. You see the Jesus that I know doesn't like the murder of little children. He doesn't like people, who can but won't WORK, and take from those who can and do WORK. And He doesn't like HOMOSEXUALITY. YOUR CURRENT PRESIDENT SUPPORTS ALL OF THESE THINGS. If you have one, READ the WHOLE BIBLE, that's all in there. If you don't have One, go get One. Don't rely on just what you hear. Of course, that doesn't fit your agenda either, does it? A good place for you to start is the "Gospel Of John." Then read the "Book Of Hebrew" and the "Gospel Of Matthew." Now, READ IT ALL, not just the parts that support your agenda. In closing, I really don't care what you believe about me, God knows me and He is the one that counts. He knows that I didn't have to depend on the government or anyone else to get to where I am. Can you say that? HMMMMM!!!!! Doesn't sound like it.

  • 671...You lie! Look what Fact Check.Org says: Republicans claim the president’s $716 billion “cuts” to Medicare hurt the program’s finances. But the opposite is true. These cuts in the future growth of spending prolong the life of the Medicare trust fund, stretching the program’s finances out longer than they would last otherwise. Mitt Romney has claimed that President Barack Obama has “robbed” Medicare. Rep. Paul Ryan, Romney’s running mate, said Obama “turned Medicare into a piggy bank to fund Obamacare,” promising to “stop the raid on Medicare.” And the Republican National Committee is promoting on its website a feature it calls “Obama’s Countdown to Medicare’s Bankruptcy,” which lists the days, hours, minutes and seconds left until the Medicare Part A trust fund is exhausted. But there would be even fewer days until the fund’s exhaustion if Obama’s health care law hadn’t included those $700 billion in "SPENDING REDUCTIONS." Medicare would spend less each year than it had been expected to otherwise, allowing Medicare to stretch further the income it receives from payroll taxes and premiums. 671....So do you think if you tell this lie enough times that we will really start to believe it? Doubt it...even us deaf, dumb and blind monkeys know better than that. Shame on you!

  • 671, by your definition Jesus was a socialist. Jesus's primary message was to abandon your selfish ways of acquiring as much wealth and possessions as possible, and help the poor. How can you possibly reconcile your vile radical right-wing political ideology with your supposed Christian religious tenets of the teachings of Jesus Christ? It is not possible, my friend. Somebody is a hypocrite here, and it isn't me. And I just love it when you right wingers start talking about how "nobody" helped me and my family pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. What a crock! If you live in the US you have greatly benefited from the government, you just don't know it. Didn't you go to school? Didn't you use the roads to get there and everywhere else you there? And that is just one example of hundreds. Your right wing myopia just will not allow you to see them. Nobody in this country gets anywhere all on their own. Laughable. Now, go to church and try to learn something for a change!

  • Tnk You 671, thomyv I was waiting for someone with a blind eye to challange me on this. As I stated earlier go to Shop and Save in Eastwood Shopping center and see how many able body people are in there using the welfare card.Pleaese open your eyes when you do.i have no dobt that some of them may be laget on using the card but with my since of penny pinching I could probaly get 85% off the welfare rolls in 2 weeks............Then go down to the unemployment office and ask people why they cant find a job. I have heard of two excusses that are week. Either all the jobs that are avaliable are beneath them or they dont want to take a job because it is too hard. Now hold on I know what your thinking but just try it and see, you asked.

  • Sombody please find these welfare cheats who could work and point them out. I keep hearing about them but haven't seen one yet! Food stamps come on a card that will not let one buy things other than food. All the single mothers I have met have a requirement that they work or are in school. Another red herring to throw at the poor making it easier to demonize them. How about the fact that wages for the poor and middle class when adjusted for inflation have been stagnant for 40 years. And where do u suppose the wealth represented by those wages went? It sure as **** didn't trickle diwn did it!

  • 1713, spoken like a true SOCIALIST...It amazes me that someone, with so much hate in their heart, quotes the Bible, in part, but won't quote the part that applies to THEMSELVES. You want to debate the Bible with me, BRING IT ON. I'll bet you didn't live in DEEP POVERTY like we did. Did you ever live in a cardboard house? Did you ever wake up with snow on your bed? HMMMM!!!!! We did. But, you know what, we had a mother that didn't think that was good enough for her children. I also know a lot of other people in the same shape. So, she went out and got a JOB and WORKED HARD all of her life, up until the day she died. She, also, taught her children to WORK HARD for what they needed. We NEVER depended on the GOVERNMENT, or anyone else, for ANYTHING. I'm not complaining, I'm EXTREMELY PROUD of what my family has accomplished. Maybe, you should have WALKED in my family's shoes, before you critize someone that you know NOTHING about. Am I happy about big corporate exec's huge bonuses? No!! Am I happy about the $500B+ that will be taken from Medicare to pay for Obamacare? No!! Am I happy that our government, for many years, has raided Social Security to pay for such things as Planned Parenthood and little fish in the desert? No!! However, there a LOT of people out there, MORE THAN YOU THINK, THAT CAN, BUT WON'T WORK. The Bible also talks about that, but I bet you won't quote that part. I didn't have to go to Fox News to see this. According to ABC, NBC, and CBS, Obama's policies wants to take, what we WORKED HARD FOR, and give it to those who won't. Our country was not founded, by our Founding Fathers, to do that. I'm not happy with how our government operates now, I HAVEN'T FOR A WHILE, I'm just going to vote for the lesser of two evils. Now if you want to give what you WORKED for, if you WORKED, to those who WON'T, that's fine. Just don't FORCE us, who WORKED HARD, to do the same. I just want our GREAT NATION to go back to the founding principles, to WORK HARD, freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion, and give our future generations a chance to live a full and happy life.

  • Again 1713 I can appriciate your research but it seems I am never going to convince you that I am a conservative that not only expect the people that can work to work and the ones that cannot should be helped. So all the scriptures you just quoted me are exactly why I know we should help the poor.I also have read in the bible, and I apologize if I cant quote the exact place God also expects people to help themselves. I am not in favor to start quoting bible scriptures but if I need to I will again research the scriptures I need to support my idealology. The only problem it seems that you have labeled all Republicans cold hearted people and I know I can't change your mind..........Just one more time I will state that I know for a fact that the federal goverment cannot afford to provide for the whole country and survive as a republic based on a capitalist economy!!!!!.A question that just came to mind by you quoting the scriptures, does that mean you dont mind giving the goverment all your money so that it can use it the way it pleases to take care of poor people??????? "No one can serve two masters".It is hard for a rich man to enter heaven." "Sell all your belongings and follow me."You need to realize that if your going to use scriptures in a debate you need to make sure that you are living them. I dont know your finances and you dont know mind but it seems to me you think I am rich????? Believe me I am not!!!And the more Obama wants to take out of my pocket to serve his own agenda the poorer I get. I have not had an opportunity to look at the Ryan plan to debate it.

  • mach570, maybe you should re-read some of Christ's teachings and take it to heart: "If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." -Proverbs 21:13 "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." -Proverbs 31:8-9 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -Matthew 6:24 "Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'" -Matthew 19:23-24 It seems to me that Christians have lost their way when it comes to helping the poor as Christ commands...the Paul Ryan Plan is a perfect example.

  • 671, what specifically do you not agree with that I wrote? Nobody that I know who is a liberal or a conservative likes it when some people find a way to beat the system and get relief that they don't deserve. That is NOT what the system was designed to do and those people are the ones that we see at the convenience stores buying crap with their government relief cards...but they are in the minority. But it takes tax dollars to really police the cheats and so far, we don't seem to have the stomach to adequately fund such an endeavor. The government finds cheaters every day, and prosecutes them. There will always be unscrupulous vendors and recipients who will figure out a way to beat it, but that does not mean that we should scrap it. The public assistance system was designed to help those 23.1% of our nation's children who are living in poverty. Only Romania ranks higher in the world with 25.5 percent on the scale of what economists call "relative child poverty", above Latvia, Bulgaria, Spain, Greece, and 29 others. The term "relative child poverty" refers to a child living in a household where the disposable income is less than half of the national median income. It is there to give a leg up to those who find themselves in untenable situations that are often beyond their control due to death, sickness, or economic calamity. My point is that there are a lot more chiselers out there with brief cases than diaper pails that should be ferreted out first and foremost. Methinks that you should spend some time in the working poor's shoes before you make such harsh criticisms.

  • Well written, mach570. A very common sense approach.

  • 671 you summed up the whole debate. I have looked back at the points that have been debated on this forum especially the one that 1713 just wrote.By the way 1713 well researched and written. I dont debate your stats nor am I going to spend a lot of time trying to find stats that will back up my points.I have no doubt that paying the congressman a lower wage will solve our debt problems, it is just one way to start. I like that everytime someone comes up with an idea to cut spending another person says that it will not be enough to help.As I read your post it seems you think I am for coorperate welfare and not for helping neeeeeeeded people.............Any way back to my original intent for this post. The way I see it the whole system is out of wack. The way I see it is the liberals want to take care of the people that dont want to work and the republicans-not conservatives- want to take care of the people who dont have to work. leaving the middle class to suffer.EXAMPLE of the liberals, every time they pass a law or executive order and pretend that it is going to help the needed it dos'nt. Go to Shop and Save on the 1st and the 15th and take note how many people in there have 5 or more kids of different races and ages,they have a SMART phone,if the kids are old enough to have a cell phone they have one,The adults have tatoos and pierced earings and are wearing all kinds of bling, some kids had tattoos and pierced ears, the food they are buying is chips cokes and candy, and they pull out a welfare card to pay for it.Then they get in a new model car.You will over hear them say that their kid is going to camp the next day. EXAMPLE on the Republican way of doing things,Go to an amusement park and try to buy a coke for under 8.00 or try to buy a new boat or try to get a high paying job without knowing someone. Both of these examples are a direct assult on the middle class and the American way of life...........The way I feel these two examples should be insituted is for example one if a family suffers the lost of the main money maker in the family and all of the sudden find there selves without income give them all the resources that our country can give them to get them on there feet but nothing more. Example two is that if myself and my family want to got to the amusement park for a day it should not cost an arm and a leg to do it. The countrty should help company's to get on there feet and nothing more.Help Toyota set up operations in Kentucky and nothing more!!!!!!! Sorry so long but I dont listen to Fox for my opinions I read history and listen to GOD.

  • I agree with everything posted this morning, except for 1713. One of my biggest gripes with this current government, is taking from those who do work and giving it to those who can work, but won't.

  • 570"As far as the legislatures go if we cut their pay to normal levels that may solve a lot of our budjet concerns."............................................................................................Not even close to solving any of our budget big do you think that the legislature is? How big are our budget concerns? Compare the two. As for your "Neeeeever do that to somone who neeeeds assistance", when you pull that lever for Romney this November, THAT is exactly what you will be doing. The Romney/Ryan Plan does that in spades. The fly in your ointment is that you don't understand the difference between corporate wellfare and About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies. So, the government spent 50% more on corporate welfare than it did on food stamps and housing assistance in 2006. Look up the details, but remember this heartfelt plea from the Save the CEO’s Charitable Trust: There’s so much suffering in the world. It can all get pretty overwhelming sometimes. Consider, for a moment the sorrow in the eyes of a CEO who’s just found out that his end-of-year bonus is only going to be a paltry $2.3 million.........................................................................................“It felt like a slap in the face. Imagine what it would feel like just before Christmas to find out that you’re going to be forced to scrape by on your standard $8.4 million compensation package alone. Imagine what is was like to have to look into my daughter’s face and tell her that I couldn’t afford to both buy her a dollar sign shaped island and hire someone to chew her food from now on, too. To put her in that situation of having to choose… She’s only a child for God’s sake.” It doesn’t have to be this way. Thanks to federal subsidies from taxpayers like you, CEO’s like G. Allen Andreas of Archer Daniels Midland was able to take home almost $14 million in executive compensation last year. But he’s one of the lucky ones. There are still corporations out there that actually have to provide goods and services to their consumers in order to survive. They need your help. For just $93 billion a year the federal government is able to provide a better life for these CEO’s and their families. That’s less than the cost of 240 million cups of coffee a day. Won’t you help a needy corporation today?

  • ema, I too agree with what you say about the corporate taxes and the oil company breaks. Especially the oil companys.As far as the legislatures go if we cut their pay to normal levels that may solve a lot of our budjet concerns. I always thought that our reps were supposed to be a part time job???? The problem I had was the comment that uk fan said about giving people that NEEEEEEED assistance grief and ridicule. I would Neeeeever do that to somone who neeeeds assistance.You can make the same agument about a great percentage of people who are recieving assistance who dont need it as you do about big buisness,congress,oil companies etc.Just go to Shop and Save during the 15th and you see what I am talking about. This is all tax money that is wasted. So I say we get a handle on all this before we raise taxes. Yea right.PS talk to someone who works at Toyota in Georgetown and see how they feel about corperate tax breaks.

  • have raised a lot of really good points. It is a shame to see OUR taxes go to oil companies and big corporations but let the ones paying INTO the system need a helping hand and you get grief and ridicule.

  • I pay taxes and have for many years. I wish I could designate where my tax dollars go. They wouldn't go to congress when they work a 100 days a year and get the best of everything - healthcare, retirement, etc. If all the waste and corruption in government was eliminated there would be plenty for everybody. I just love the doctors who bilk the government for millions using the medicare and medicaid system, farmers with million dollar incomes taking subsidies from the government, oil companies getting subsidies, defense contractors who bilked the government out of billions over the last decade, etc. Some people seem to ignore all of this and tend to complain about some poor person who has lost their job receiving some assistance. Geez Louise, strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. This is all I have to say. And will not respond to anyone's post.

  • You are right...people need to quit complaining and due their duty as a responsible citizen and vote. It is a shame that our country has gotten into the shape it is in. But you are right it is the voters that need to get involved. Why leave your future decisions up to other people? If people don't get more involved the big corporations are going to own this country lock stock and barrel. Then it will become the country of the "have and have nots". I think a lot of people don't vote because they think "oh well it's just one vote what does one vote matter". I will get off my soapbox now...have a good day mach570

  • NO in no way was I personally talking about you UK fan. I don't know you to be talking about you personally. I do agree again with most of your post. I think our congress and senate is broke. There is no way you can get anything you want if you dont compromise.I used to not agree with term limits but the way the American public and our reps have abused the system I now do believe in them. The main problem with the system is that no one votes!!!!I am a firm believer in a system where the people decide who represents them in goverment, but when 85% of the people donot participate in the system it will not work. So this is where I just cannot get on board with letting the goverment provide for me I would like to try to get more people involved in civics and vote these carrer politician out and bring back the way the country was ment to be by the founding father. A System BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE!!!!!. A thought just hit, maybe why people dont vote is because they do want the goverment taking care of them. I sure hope not.

  • mach570 ...I hope you are not talking about me. I have worked hard for what I have all my life and have been fortunate enough not to have to ask the government for help. But with all the good jobs being either shipped overseas or being manned by illegal immigrants, my children have fallen on hard times trying to provide for their family working two or three minimum wage jobs and at times not even being able to find work. The sole people responsible for our country being in the state it's in is the ones fighting like children in Washington. I am talking about the Senate and Congress. They have not been good stewards of this country. Once elected they care nothing about anyone except themselves getting rich off the taxpayers. They have way too much power. I would love to be able to vote myself a raise. They also have the best health care and retirements. They keep talking about entitlements (like that is a bad word) but the way I see it WE have paid into these programs so WE ARE entitled. They have mismanaged our taxes and now they want to blame the President for all that is wrong with the country when in fact it is them that are the problem. Maybe we do need a different system because from the looks of things in Washington "IT AIN'T WORKING"!

  • This is going to be short I hope. I am getting sick and tired of people trying to make a point on how goverment should take care of us always wanting to compare us to other countries and how the US dosn't take care of us. I DON"T WANT TO BE LIKE OTHER COUNTRIES.BEING DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER COUNTRIES IS WHAT MADE US GREAT. AMERICANS WORKED FOR WHAT THEY GOT. IF THOSE WHO COMPARE US TO OTHER COUNTRIES WISH TO BE LIKE THEM "LEAVE OURS"!!!!!!!!!!

  • UK Fan as far as I know most of the cost that the health care act has will come from Federal Income Tax and all the other taxes they are going to level on health care cost for the ones that can afford it. Sales tax go to the state(I know the state is going to pay for the medicaid part of this eventually)school tax go to schools,library tax go to libraries,property taxes go to cities or counties,gas tax go to the transportation dept.and your right there are a numerous other taxes we pay but most of the time they are designated to a certain expense.I know most liberals don't want to say it but we all know who this is going to help the most.Low income to no income people.Not saying these people dont need help but as I have said earlier this country as a free capitalist country is not set up to provide everything to everybody. The only way we can insure everyone is to have the goverment tax??? everyone for their FAIR SHARE of everything and then provide everything to them and just let us have a little our income for our recreation.(sound familiar???)The dangerous thing about this is that the goverment will be able to regulate what doctor we see, what food we eat, how much gas we buy, what kind of house we live in, what kind of car we drive, what kind of clothes we wear,andwhere our kids go to school etc.. I know this sounds real familiar because this is where our country is going.I said on another post that if our country keeps trying to provide for everyone without taxing the heck out of us the country never will pay off its deficit.

  • You can't eat "compassion" or pay the rent or bills with it either. These people pay taxes too, they are just not as fortunate as other in life. And don't tell me they don't pay taxes either because everyone does. Maybe not at the end of the year like some do but there is: sales tax / school tax / library tax / property tax / gasoline tax and who knows what else taxes they add to your utilites. So the nation's wealth is theirs too because they DO pay taxes.

  • People are supposed to be responsible for their own lives, not to demand that someone else foot the bill for their salvation or retraining. The problem with socialism (as you and Obama and others envision it) is that sooner or later you run out of somebody else's money. (Hat tip to Margaret Thatcher for that one) The nation's wealth is not yours, it belongs to those who earned it. History has shown that compassion, in the form of charity, does more to help people than any government programs, with less corruption and less waste. Government is a hungry beast, not a benevolent teddy bear.