5-Point Guide To The Fiscal Showdown

anonymous_1713 Published:

1- The "Fiscal Cliff" Is A Myth. As Paul Krugman put it, "The looming prospect of spending cuts and tax increases isn't a fiscal crisis. It is, instead, a political crisis brought on by the G.O.P.'s attempt to take the economy hostage."1 The Congressional 1%ers are manufacturing this crisis to pressure everyone else to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and accept painful cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

2- The Bush Tax Cuts Finally End December 31. If Congress does nothing, the ax will fall on all the Bush tax cuts on New Year's Eve.2 Then, on January 1, the public pressure on John Boehner and House Republicans to extend the middle-class tax cuts (already passed by the Senate and waiting to be signed by President Obama) will become irresistible.3 So the middle-class tax cut will eventually get renewed, and we'll have $823 billion more revenue from the top 2% to do great things with.4

3- The Sequester. The sequester is another political creation, forced on the country by the Tea Party in Congress in exchange for lifting the debt ceiling last year to avoid crashing our economy.5 It's a set of cuts (50% to a bloated military budget and 50% to important domestic programs) designed to make both Republicans and Democrats hate it so much that they'd never let it happen.6 And the cuts can be reversed weeks or months into 2013 without causing damage.7

4- The Big Three. Nothing happens to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits on January 1—unless Tea Partiers and Congressional 1%ers force painful cuts to beneficiaries in exchange for tax increases on the wealthy, which are going to happen anyway if Congress does NOTHING.8 So, there's literally no reason benefits cuts should be part of the discussion right now.

5- We Should Be Holding Wall Street Accountable. The real crisis at the center of our economic meltdown is the mess Wall Street left us. There are 16 million underwater homeowners in the United States, nearly 1/3rd of all homeowners in the country. They are joined by 7 million households in some stage of the foreclosure crisis. The fallout from the collapse of the financial industry built on shady loans and inflated housing prices shredded the job market and gave use the worst economy since the Great Depression. And still not one senior level banker has gone to jail. Americans want some accountability for the trillions we've spend in bailouts and the millions still left dealing with the consequences.

Want to leave your comments?

Sign in or Register to comment.

  • You wish. But I only fail at the history part your delusional self desires to be true. I'm glad you keep FOX News in business. Democrats seem to be the only ones watching. I was afraid you only watch Colbert, which would truly explain your warped world views. Oh, well, continue to live in your little bubble. You are much older than me. You'll first feel the impact of the your misguided ideology. You'll regret the day you voted for Obama, well, now doubly. ROFL

  • You fail at basic history, er ah, current events. Don't they tell you this stuff over there in the FOX bubble? I KNOW that they don't because I watch FOX News so that these fine folks don't have to.

  • He could balance the budget on the back of social security like Clinton did. Oh, wait, Obama doesn't operate with a budget. Borrowing from China is kicking the can down the road. You fail at basic economics.

  • Obama inherited the biggest deficit in our history...what was he supposed to do, continue to kick the can down the road like his predecessor?

  • Paid for? Really? I didn't know it's pragmatic to borrow way above your credit limits so you have to pay it back for generations to come. And I wouldn't call that paid for either. Is that the same "paid for" as bailing out companies, then loan them more money so they can pay back the first loans while simultaneously claiming that everything worked out because they 'paid back' the money. You guys are funny!

  • UKfan, it wasn't just the unpaid wars that President Obama had to clean up, it was the 2 major tax cuts that disproportionately favored the ultra rich, AND the prescription drug plan that largely was just an entitlement program for the drug companies. These were not conservative principles here, they are radical extremism. All of that has been paid for these days under the responsible and pragmatic Obama.

  • We seem to forget that we would not be here if not for the unpaid wars that Bush started and didn't fund. When the president came into office the country was already in the crapper. Yes I will blame Bush because HE and his cronies ARE to blame.

  • I wouldn't read 671's posts either, but they are always so short that I can't help it...I just look at the author and my eyes automatically scan the next few words.

  • Good post, mom3. I don't read 1713 posts anymore, either.

  • anonymous, 1713 does have the right to his own opinion. I just don't care about it. Hence I don't read it. If he presents copy/paste jobs of material he seemingly doesn't understand as 'facts', that is his own problem. I don't care for it and don't read it. Judging by your post, he has resorted to preschool name-calling. No wonder he supports Obama. Another one who depends on the handouts us hardworking people have to pay for. His opinion won't change even when the full Obama taxes kick in. He has absolutely no clue what Obamacare will cost us. And that's on top of that stimulus crap we are still paying for and the automobile industry bailouts that cost us dearly, in the long run to boot because environmentally it was a total disaster. How many quality cars got junked? Too many! What did the economy do? Go down further. Meanwhile I end up paying more taxes courtesy of Obama. It's all Obama's fault!

  • That is not what I said but yeeeeah, them darned Republicans insisted as part of the deal just signed on the expiration of the payroll tax holiday,which caused the rate to revert from 4.2% to 6.2% on the first $113,700 in earnings. Don't blame Obama for that!

  • So you went from claiming Obama afforded us the biggest tax cut in history to telling us it was just a tax 'holiday'. Nice 'facts' you got there. Fact is indeed since January first we are paying more into the public coffers. Your belittling of mom3 by altering her username shows you know you have lost your argument. But you stay in your own little bubble where party propaganda is 'facts'. We in the real world have to deal with the real FACTS as in less money in our pockets thanks to Obama's 'spend, spend, spend' mantra. Yeah, it was indeed Obama who claimed it to be a presidential failure if the debt ceiling needs to be raised. What changed since 2006? Oh, I forgot, Obama isn't president, he is king. LOL 1713y, you can claim what you want. Reality speaks for itself and it ain't what you claim it is. Be afraid, be very afraid. Obamacare already did a moneygrab into Medicare. They'll do it again. And pension funds. And social security. But you can always sell your property when the airport expands. lol

  • Mommy, I am not the one that is twisting it (can you whistle while you are doing that?)...I am the one who is presenting the facts. What factual information have you presented to make your case...oh, that would be none. You can call your opinion a "fact" all that you want in your bubble, but that doesn't make it so. Mommy, you are "entitled" to your own opinion (which you are not shy about expressing), but so far, hon, that is all that you've got. Whar's the beef?

  • mom3, I never thought of it that way, but you are right.

  • 671, it's called an entitlement because it's owed to you by law. You paid in, therefore you are entitled to a payout. Unfortunately, it's been thrown in the same pot with welfare program monies some people also feel 'entitled' to receive.

  • You can twist it any way you want. Fact is, we pay more taxes, all of us. Didn't yea know, we are ALL rich!

  • Cut off your finger and you can't pull the change out of your pocket...

  • Don't take my word for it, here is what Mitch McConnell said, and I QUOTE: "But the most important thing about what we just did was we got permanent tax relief for 99% of Americans. And the reason permanence is important, if the law sunsets, you have to go back and have the debate all over again." MM is just a big commie...

  • Don't take my word for it, here is what Mitch McConnell said, and I QUOTE: "But the most important thing about what we just did was we got permanent tax relief for 99% of Americans. And the reason permanence is important, if the law sunsets, you have to go back and have the debate all over again." MM is just a big commie...

  • AMEN, UKFAN. And where does anybody get the idea that Social Security and Medicare are ENTITLEMENTS? We PAID for those programs. Who is to blame for congress spending OUR Social Security and Medicare money for such things as Planned Parenthood, NPR, little fish in the desert, etc.? ANYBODY who voted for THAT shoud be charged with THEFT BY DECEPTION.

  • Your social security taxes will go back up to 6.2% from 4.2%. That was a reduction the president enacted to help the middle class. The actual tax rates did go up on people making over $400,000 but not on taxpayers under that. The waste in government is the people that we have been electing to run the country. They have run it into the ground. If Washington had been doing their jobs correctly for the last several years we would not be in this mess. They are the most overpaid nonproducing government we have ever had.

  • I'm down about 2 grand D. Hope your guy Obammie the commie spends it well.

  • In 20/20 hindsight, there was no real fiscal cliff after all, just like Paul Krugman said. We all went off of it and like the mythological Wile E. Coyote, we were suspended in mid air, instead of falling to our demise. Current events have validated everything that was in the original post...the truth floating the boat quiet well.

  • lol believe what you want, whatever floats your boat. Celebrate why you can. People will know the truth with the arrival of their next paycheck. Where exactly is that permanent tax cut you are gloating about? crafting doesn't mean passing. Next up, taxing the heck out of pensions for the early retired. Pay your fair share 1713.

  • The fact is that Obama did craft the largest PERMANENT tax cut for 99% of Americans. Them's tha'facts, ma'am. You guys can stick your psychobabble analysis of my perceived debating skills or character flaws where the sun don't shine. My original premise hold true, you ARE paying less taxes under Obama!

  • Uh, anonymous, sorry you're so butt hurt about the election, but the fiscal cliff deal was both crafted by Obama and a win for him and the Dems. He offered the House goobers a much better deal by their measure - $800 billion in spending cuts and tax cuts for all up to $450,000. They turned him down cold. Too bad for them. Then, they turned down their own Speaker's plan to preserve tax cuts for everyone below $1 million with Obama's same spending cuts. They refused that one, too and the House goobers threw the ball to the Senate. In a sign of pure pity, Obama sent Biden in to "negotiate" Reid's bill with McConnell so he wouldn't have to be seen "negotiating" with Reid. It was the Obama-Reid bill that finally passed - overwhelmingly - after the goobers begged for an adult to step in and save the day. The Congress, not the president, puts forth and votes on economic measures, although, if you and enough other goobers want him to, I'm absolutely sure he'd use the executive order to just do Congress' job for them if that's really what you want. Just ask! You make it so darn easy!

  • but but but... it's still all Bush's fault LOL

  • Your lack of debate skills has nothing to do with who won the election. But reading skills aren't your forte. We knew that a long time ago. Your beloved Obama had nothing to do with the compromise or the hold up. Might want to have a talk with Reid. But you have your blinders on as usual. And selective memory. But thanks to Obama himself we know he utterly failed us as President and should be kicked out of office: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” - Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), March 20, 2006

  • There, that didn't hurt a bit, did it Mr. Boehner? How hard could it be? Why these people support your efforts to protect the richest 2% at the expense of their own financial security is beyond me. ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. BREAKING NEWS Tuesday, January 1, 2013 11:19 PM EST House Passes Fiscal Deal, Averting Tax Increases and Spending Cuts Ending a climactic fiscal showdown in the final hours of the 112th Congress, the House late Tuesday passed and sent to President Obama legislation to avert tax increases on most Americans and prevent large cuts in spending for the Pentagon and other government programs. The measure, brought to the House floor less than 24 hours after its passage in the Senate, passed 257 to 167, with 85 Republicans joining 172 Democrats in voting to allow incomes taxes to rise for the first time in two decades. The bill is expected to be signed quickly by Mr. Obama.

  • Sore loser? Hey mom3, maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events inside your bubble, but we won in November. Explain what I said that was "total junk". You got nuthin'...

  • anonymous I see what you mean with the barrage of successive posts. Although it's another ID and total junk somebody successfully buried this post. Seems he is a sore loser.

  • OK 1120, I have got that part, but which one did YOU use? And what figures did you plug in? How can I verify what you are saying without that info?

  • 1120, hence the quick action to bury your information with a quick barrage of successive posts containing information he already posted before. If you read closely, he now even claims Bush tax cuts as Obama cuts. He wouldn't notice since it's copy/paste action from propaganda websites. What do you expect from somebody who thinks "The Daily Show" is real news? The ability to actually research something on his own? I don't think he even realizes, he, too, will be affected by the inaction of the likes of Obama and Reid. Now that he won his second term, Obama could care less about what happens. **** take his family around the world and milk the government for as much as he can. He doesn't care anymore. 1713 just hasn't caught on to that yet. Obama was born with a golden spoon in his mouth. He is not about to stoop down to help the little guy, if it does not benefit him.

  • I told you how to find the information for yourself. As I said, there are at least a dozen different such calculators from different sources that come up on the first page of search results. I'd think that it would mean more to you that I told you how to independently verify what I'm saying rather than trying to wade through a bunch of calculations that would be illegible thanks to the crappy formatting options available here.

  • "The collapse of Boehner's tax effort "weakens the entire Republican Party," said Rep. Steve LaTourette, R-Ohio, who is retiring after 18 years. "It's the continuing dumbing down of the Republican Party," he said, "and we are going to be seen more and more as a bunch of extremists that can't even get a majority of our own people to support policies that we're putting forward. If you're not a governing majority, you're not going to be a majority very long." Republican consultant and writer Craig Shirley told The Washington Post: "The national GOP is now simply a collection of warring tribal factions.""

  • On Fox News they love to lie about the President's proposed tax plan, with stuff like "What I find so offensive about his tax plan is by raising taxes on small business, as he does, he will kill jobs." In reality, Obama has repeatedly cut taxes on small businesses, by most counts, 18 times, and his tax plan would have no effect on 97% of small businesses. .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... They also lie about "this sequestration idea...came out of the White House." No, it didn't. This sequestration idea emanated from House Republicans. ........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... They also lie about Obama "spending more and more, borrowing more and more, putting us on a road to Greece." That's painfully untrue. ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... During the campaign Romney said, "I'm not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people. High-income people are doing just fine in this economy." That's not true. The wealthy would have received a massive, disproportionate tax break under the Romney plan. .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... On taxes, Romney said, "I do want to reduce the burden being paid by middle-income Americans. And to do that that also means that I cannot reduce the burden paid by high-income Americans." This is ridiculously untrue (and more than a little incoherent).

  • Great article that helps put this puppy into proper perspective: http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-gop-policies-led-fiscal-cliff-blowup-222503056--politics.html ....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Here's an excerpt: " House Republicans seem shocked by their party's meltdown on the so-called fiscal cliff. They shouldn't be. The uncompromising conservatives who blocked Speaker John Boehner's tax bill were merely sticking to policies that Boehner and nearly all other GOP leaders have pushed, without reservation, for years: It's always wrong to raise tax rates on anyone, no matter how rich. The nation's big deficit is entirely "a spending problem, not a revenue problem." And in any deficit-reduction plan, spending cuts must overwhelm new revenues, by 10-to-1 if not more. .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... To be surprised by Boehner's failure is to assume one of two things. Either House conservatives didn't really believe their party's bedrock principles; or they would compromise after seeing President Barack Obama win re-election on a deficit-reduction plan that called for higher taxes on the wealthy. Neither was true. And now the Republican Party is reeling from unbending fealty to its core principles. Congress' structure makes compromise essential, and the nation once lionized the 19th century senator and congressman Henry Clay as "the Great Compromiser." But the modern Republican Party is heavily energized by the tea party movement, which sees compromise as a triumph of flabby pragmatism over courageous conviction. ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... All these threads weaved themselves into a knot late Thursday that strangled Boehner's bid to position his party behind a tiny concession on tax hikes. Whereas Obama campaigned to raise tax rates on couples making more than $250,000 — a threshold he offered to raise in postelection negotiations — Boehner asked his House Republican colleagues to accept higher rates only on millionaires. When an undisclosed number refused, Boehner had to abruptly send Congress home for the holidays and face reporters asking if he will lose his speakership. ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... It's still possible that Obama, Boehner and Congress can reach a deal to avert the "fiscal cliff" before the Jan. 1 deadline. For now, however, the House Republicans' internal warfare makes it easier for opponents to paint them as extremists, unworthy of serious negotiations. "The president and Congress have no obligation to radical Republicans who have no ground to stand on," said AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka. It's doubtful that any congressional Republicans see themselves as radicals. Polls nonetheless show that key GOP policies are drifting from mainstream American sentiment. The Republican establishment has yet to do much about it."

  • 1120, show your work please. Without that, all we have are your opinions.

  • Google "fiscal cliff calculator." There are quite a few of them out there on the internet from different sources, and all arrived at the same conclusion I did from reading the available tax tables and other information available from the IRS about 2013 tax rates.

  • 1120, please explain in detail what "math" that you did...I am not saying that you are wrong, I'm just curious about how you arrived at those figures...educate us please.

  • Not going to affect low income owners you say? I did the math myself and guess what-I make 22K a year, and if the fiscal cliff happens I'm going to be left holding the bag for close to $900 more per year. That's close to 1/2 paycheck for me!

  • I don't pull pranks...and I always tell the truth ;-). I really don't think that a flat tax is the answer...NOW 9, 9, 9 WAS a prank that you will NEVER get to work. When the detailed analysis of Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan came out I thought for sure it would mean he'd be laughed out of the race. Just looking at that "Average Federal Tax Change" column, everyone making less than $200,000 per year gets a tax hike and the rich pay less? A 15% tax cut for people making more than a million dollars a year? How can that be a serious proposal?

  • Lol! It wasn't a prank and I almost got it to work!

  • Thanks 1713, I'll try the paragraph breaks! The little voice in my head keeps telling me that it's a great, and funny, prank for me to try but result in a ton of "......" running everywhere! But I gotta try it! Funny trumps! ........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ I wish we would put back on the table a discussion of real reform... Flat Tax! Everyone is taxed equal, everyone would pay! It would reduce the size of the IRS, would reduce the deficit much faster, and it would eliminate class warfare! You want to work a little and make a little, get flat taxed on that little! You want to work hard and make more, get flat taxed on that more. It's pretty simple, makes sense, and is equal to everyone, therefore it will never pass!

  • If you’re following the media story, you might believe the GOP’s claims that the world’s about to end. But it’s all a bunch of political posturing so that they can get what their 1% donors want out of the deal. That’s why we have to spread the truth, so our friends and family don’t fall for their shenanigans.

  • How to do fancy line breaks: first off, you hit the space bar a couple of times and then you press the ............. and hold it for 5 full lines and let it run over about a third of the way on the 6th line then stop. You hit the space be a couple of more times and that is it, you have a fancy line break, which works almost as well as a paragraph break to the reader but is a whale of a lot more cumbersome. All that I can figure is that the SJ didn't want anyone to use more than a paragraph to explain their positions regardless of how complicated they were. It is funny that they use a lot more than one paragraph in their editorials, but hey, it's their paper!

  • chazrigz... but you did reply. It's pretty simple, and I'm not going to flood this with an over abundant supply of copy and pasted material that is available for you to find and read for yourself, it’s all about greed!..................................................(sorry I don’t know how to do the fancy line breaks but I will try)…………………………………… Look at the overall picture and you will find that there are 261 millionaires in congress! They (both Democrats and Republicans) will fight over the fiscal cliff, making it the worst thing to ever hit out country, fill everyone with fear, fill the talk radios with spin doctor talking points, all in the name of votes! They don’t want the reduced taxes to end, they don’t want to tax the rich, but they do want to keep their jobs! Wake up and realize they don’t care about and cannot relate to you or me!............................................................................................................................................................. If you are the rich AND you get to make the laws, would you really make a law that would hurt yourself?

  • But you used a reply to not waste a reply... I don't get it LOL

  • Sounds pretty accurate to me. Can't understand why social security is on the table for cuts.....it doesn't add to the deficit. There needs to be cuts to the corporate welfare recipients big time. Taxes for the rich are going to happen so they need to get over it.

  • This is so wrong, so riddled with error, so full of mistakes that it doesn't even rate a reply. Pathetic.