Are We Stupid Or Sumpin"?

MSgt Thomas Vance USAF Ret. Published:

The latest affront to citizens of the Bluegrass State in the dumb hillbilly joke race is a variation of this one.  A Kentuckian is asked about the Kentucky Health Insurance website KYNECT.gov and he responds that he likes it just fine but he don’t want none of that ‘Obamacare’!   I think it springs from a lot of people saying that they,’ don’t want no Government Healthcare and keep your Government hands off my Medicare!’ during the last elections.  
I find it hard to believe we are so ill informed that after all the squawking about health insurance Kentuckians still do not know that the Affordable Care Act which touches all aspects of health insurance and includes all of us is Obamacare!  The KNECT website is doing on a local level what the Federal website is doing.  Had we not set up the KNECT site we would have been using the Federal website to register for Insurance.
This, sometimes willful, ignorance of the Affordable Care Act is definitely a tribute to the Republicans ability to deceive the citizens to reach their political aims.   It bespeaks the Republicans own weakness that they are driven to destroy the program Romney instituted in Massachusetts when he was the governor there.   Democrats favored a single payer plan, but seeing as the Mass. Plan worked, and was instituted by the Republicans, Democrats figured it as a great way to get health insurance to all our citizens as most modern countries do.  
It was very surprising that Republicans repudiated their own plan and have so vociferously opposed the implementation of a plan they invented but that just fits with their platform.   Opposition to health insurance for all citizens, opposition to raising the minimum wage, an effort to reduce or eliminate entitlements, welfare, food stamps and any number of programs that help or support the middle class and the poor, and an adherence to the economic policy of supply side, or ‘trickle down’ economics which puts the money in the hands of the wealthy to trickle down to the rest of us.  A policy that has led directly to the inequality we see today and the recession left to us at the end of the Bush presidency.
Now they are trying to get us to believe that having health insurance for all citizens is a bad thing.  That somehow raising the minimum wage will hurt Kentucky.   That living up to the call to treat all our citizens with dignity and to help them make their lives better will somehow destroy America!
It leaves me with the need to ask a version of the question asked of Forest Gump.    Do Republican politicians think we are stupid or sumpin’?   

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  • The ACA is a complex bill that has been subjected to unprecedented opposition from the Republicans in Congress and the Republican lead state governors and Legislatures. In fact, in an unforeseen move, 25 Republican lead states refused to set up their own insurance exchanges 

     OH  NOW THAT'S RICH rotflmao.

     in an attempt to sabotage the ACA which put the onerous task on the federal government to set up a huge national exchange for them...a task that had never been attempted before by any entity. 

    Guess you and Barry still haven't heard of Google, Amazon, Yahoo, Facebook, you know big web sites that have no problem handling onerous amounts of web traffic

    OH FYI.. It's not the Republicans he's been changing and changing, and changing the law for.. It's his family, friends and Union bosses that he's doing this for, but not John Q. Public.. oh no we cannot make any changes for the common folk.

    If I'm not mistaken the Republicans even asked for a delay after it started being a nightmare for people to get on so it could get fixed right, which it still hasn't been no matter what number the messiah throws up because he's LYING about the whole dam law...

    So if Republican lead states are to blame then tell me why Maryland and Oregon are not successful since they are lead by Democrats?

     

  • pitch: "

    If the ACA is so great why does Obama keep skipping over congress and delaying and or changing it?

    We're waiting!!!!!!!!!"

    Waiting for what, the fruition of your efforts to skuttle the law?  Are you stupid or sumpin'? The ACA is a complex bill that has been subjected to unprecedented opposition from the Republicans in Congress and the Republican lead state governors and Legislatures. In fact, in an unforeseen move, 25 Republican lead states refused to set up their own insurance exchanges in an attempt to sabotage the ACA which put the onerous task on the federal government to set up a huge national exchange for them...a task that had never been attempted before by any entity. This sabotage attempt did not succeed in scuttling the law, but it did cause some problems in its implementation.  Congress is of no help as all that they Repugnicans want to do is repeal the LAW, but the President is resourceful and has fine tuned the bill to make it more fair to all, especially small businesses.

    You guys can't set the house on fire and then claim credit for putting it out...especially while it is still burning.  Are you stupid of sumpin' ?

  • Yes I heard of and lived thru the 25 year boom.  It only benefited those at the top

    That's a dang lie..I worked every single day for all those 25 years all over America after my enlistment ended in 1983. Matter fo fact I know a whole lot of people that benefited from that time period including yourself thomv.

    You liberal views cloud your judgement and honesty. The employment atmosphere today is like that back in the late 70's. Come to think of it, it's worse than back in the late 70's from all the "free rides" the long term unemployed get versus then. 26 weeks that was it, you either found a job or you went hungry and homeless. That's a strong incentive to keep what you have. Being handed everything just makes you weak and a gubment slave.

  • 400,000 plus KY citizens

    Subsidies help out a lot, but who ultimately pays for those subsidies? 

     How the health care law protects you...

    * Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
    * Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions
    * Helps you understand the coverage you’re getting
    * Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
    * Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick
    * Protects your choice of doctors
    * Covers young adults under 26
    * Provides free preventive care
    * Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits

     You sure love re-posting Democratic talking points and lies, and yet like the well trained parrot still cannot answer a simple question

    If the ACA is so great why does Obama keep skipping over congress and delaying and or changing it?

    We're waiting!!!!!!!!!

    There are 8 Million people who have already signed up for plans under the ACA...and counting

    It appears that your tune has changed from being assured to backing away from the actual number that are INSURED, which no one in this administration has ever released and may not to keep from being seen as the liars the supprters actually are.

  • mach570, :"Now you have to agree that Obamacare is also a big screw-up. "

    Well, actually I don't agree and the facts bear me out.  What is the big screw-up about the following?  

    - Whether you need health coverage or have it already, the health care law offers new rights and protections that make coverage fairer and easier to understand.

    - Some rights and protections apply to plans in the Health Insurance Marketplace or other individual insurance, some apply to job-based plans, and some apply to all health coverage.

    - How the health care law protects you...

    * Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
    * Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions
    * Helps you understand the coverage you’re getting
    * Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
    * Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick
    * Protects your choice of doctors
    * Covers young adults under 26
    * Provides free preventive care
    * Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits

    Do the Repugs dare to walk back these excellent benefits that folks are already getting?  Really?

    There are 8 Million people who have already signed up for plans under the ACA...and counting.  Are the Republicans gonna take their health insurance away from them?  Really?

  • Thomv, President Obama gave subsidies to several "green energy" companies. Is this not also supply side economics?  I believe that it is. Plus, a lot of those execs hauled a$$ with the money. So, supply siding is not just a Republican thing. That doesn't make it right, but there is plenty of blame to go around.

    Item 2, Northern Europe doesn't have to worry much about defense spending. The fact that you were there should be proof of this. I too spent time in "Fortress Europe"  as an armored crewman, (that's tanks) and am well aware of how things work there.  Nice place to visit, I preffer the USA.  Also, you have glossed over the wailing and gnashing of teeth about austerity measures being enacted in Europe. The riots and protests were on nightly for quite a while on ALL of the networks.

  • Welcome back thomyv. Please join in and help us make things better the American way. Get goverment out of the way and let the people revise the economy. UK there is a question out there that I would like a ligitamite answer on. If the ACA is so great why does Obama keep skipping over congress and delaying and or changing it. Also have you talked to all 400,000 plus people or at least some of them to see if they have better insurance. I do agree the ones that didnt have any insurance this is better but what about the ones that had insurance and had to drop it or the ones that had insurance and had to drop their doctor etc. The liberal side of the house keep explaining this away but I have yet heard anyone explain the why Obama and the unions dont like it.

  • Yes I heard of and lived thru the 25 year boom.  It only benefited those at the top.   Wages when adjusted for inflation have not risen but have been flat for 40 years.  You can have your beliefs, but the facts are what they are!

    Ok 400,000 plus KY citizens now have better and more affordable Health insurance becausse of the law.    How does that hurt them ?

  • You seriously think that the insurance companies would do this of their own free will? 

      I really cannot answer that since there is no foundation to go on ukfan, but it would not have hurt to try getting reasonably priced riders attached to policies without having a one size fits all law. It wan't that insurance companies did not cover pre-existing conditions it was the cost to cover that pre-existing condition that needed attention given.

    ACA is a law not health insurance.

     And it's that law that is strangling the working class by having to pay more for less. So how does that help anyone?

    As i said and will continue to say, supply side economics pushed by Republicans have devestated financially the poor and middle class.  The best way to repair this damage is to enact policies that improve the buying power of the poor and middle class.  You may call the policies of the Northern European countries socialism, but they weathered the recession just fine precisely because their poor and middle class did not lose buying power.   The change to supply side economics from supply and demand economics under Reagan got us here.  A return to supply and demand can set it right!

    I call BS on this. Ever hear of the 25 year boom? Of course you haven't or you would not post such garbage and inaccuracies.

     

     

     

     

     

  • thomyv...a voice of reason...well said.

  • Jeezzee-- I came back cause the Air Force sent me back.   Besides I am an American and why wouldn't I want to go home and make things better for my fellow citizens.  I said nothing about taking the country back, thats a Repub/fox/tea party cry, taking the country back.  I always ask, From whom are you taking it back, those who fairly won the election?

    As i said and will continue to say, supply side economics pushed by Republicans have devestated financially the poor and middle class.  The best way to repair this damage is to enact policies that improve the buying power of the poor and middle class.  You may call the policies of the Northern European countries socialism, but they weathered the recession just fine precisely because their poor and middle class did not lose buying power.   The change to supply side economics from supply and demand economics under Reagan got us here.  A return to supply and demand can set it right!

  • Bruno always a smart a$$ you just cant debate.

    UK I agree and have always agreed what the insurance companies were doing to use was wrong!!!!!!!  I also agree that something had to be done. I also agree the republicans are screwing up. Now you have to agree that Obamacare is also a big screw-up. When70% of the people ( according to NBC) that signed up went on medicare you need to ask can we afford it. Oh well all this has been said before and this country just countinues to go broke. UK , I too want to help everyone with health care but the way I see it we need to start being more responsible with our money so that we can help these people.

    The main problem is we keep electing people like Bruno who have one track minds and the cant compromise. If the people of this nation dont start being more aware what is going on around them then we will go to a socialist country and then they can just lay back and let the goverment take care of them.Like Bruno said ask people out on the street wich one they like and you will get different answers. Now lets debate the issues instead of society.

    By the way thomyv why did you come back to America if Denmark and Germany were so great?

    You ask about taking the country back. I know its hard for you to understand because you have liberal views and a socialist country wouild be fine with you. What I am talking about we need to get back to small govermnt and have the peolple more in charge of things. Thats what a lot of American soldiers died for.

  • mach570, Which do you prefer, Obamacare or the Affordable Healthcare Act?

  • need4speed, May 14, 2014 10:37AM

    "...like John Wilkes Booth blaming Lincoln for missing the last act of the play at Ford's Theater. " 

    Could you please think up a new analogy?  This one's getting kind of jaded.

    Jaded to whom?  And besides, why change it if it is not broken?  It fits the situations so succinctly.  However, being the tolerant one, I am open to suggestions...what would you replace it with?  Or are you like the Republican Party, only capable of criticising the ACA and constantly trying to repeal it, but never telling us what they would replace it with?  Because they got nothing!  Do you also have nothing?

  • I keep hearing people say "they want to take the country back". Back to what? Where if you have an pre- existing condition you can't get healthcare? If you are a woman you pay more for your insurance? If you get a major illness and your care expenses go beyond a point, that they can cancel your insurance?

    None of these issues were being addressed by the insurance companies. But now because of ACA they have to.

     

    ACA is a law not health insurance.

  • ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!! I love this bold shi!

  • OK here it is thomyv I did research Denmark. It does on the surface they seem to be making socialism work. That is my main debate do we want a socialist country. America is going that way. However the way America is moving toward socialism probablywon't work. The way a read it in Denmark people a requred to work. If you lose your job the goverment will pay you until eather you get a job or they find you one. That won't work here because to many people dont want to work. I also noticed that if you dont earn your pay they can fire you on the spot. They have universal health care payed for by individual taxes but remember most people work. Education is paid for by high corperate taxes. The rich pay extremely high taxes so that everyone else can have everything. So agin this is working in Denmark but do we want this in America.

    I agree in America we have gotten away on what this country was founded on. Trickle down economics would work if the greedy corperate CEO would reinvest in the economy.By the way this country was financed by rich land owners to start with.

     

    UK your right I would hate if I couldnt get the proper care for my relatives. But if it keeps going I will be at the mercy of the goverment on which health care they get. Now if I am rich and can pay for the health care myself that will be a different story.We need to figure out how to do this and keep the goverment out of it. Goback to having people pay for there regular doctor bills and get insuranc just for the hospital, hence hospital ins. This way people can go back to being consumers set the rate. Power of the people lol.

    The way I see it we can let the goverment provide for us and let them tell us what to eat, make us exercise, tell us where to live etc. or we can stand up and take this country back. I agree one of the first places to start is to do away with most corperate welfare. Start holding the goverment respomsible for what they do. ETC.

    Ill end there. I you want to be Denmark countinue to vote the liberal way if you want to be an American start voting for individual responsibility to the country. The way we are doing things now will not work!!!!!!!!

  • "...like John Wilkes Booth blaming Lincoln for missing the last act of the play at Ford's Theater. " 

    Could you please think up a new analogy?  This one's getting kind of jaded.

  • You seriously think that the insurance companies would do this of their own free will? I think not and that's why the ACA law was passed. Under ACA all preventative services and some testes are not out of pocket. More people are able to actually go to the doctors office when they get sick. They are also able to take better care of themselves because they can now go have check-ups annually to make sure they are healthy. This way more people will be healthier and will not require extensive care which is more costly than preventive services.

  • a preexisting condition and couldn't get insurance

    That's just it ukfan. Instead of addressing this issue with insurance companies this administration  decided behind close doors and jammed into effect a one size fits all policies that the deductables are so outrageous that people still can't afford to get sick. It's as though it is by design to do exactly that.

    Helping people by straining budgets of others to get that isn't a correction it's a hostage situation with no way out but to give in. Since when does being forced actually help? All that does is anger people and the end results will not be very good for anyone.

    You cannot look at this any other way but to say Americans, according to this administration, are incapable of making decisions and helping others on their own accords, or willingness to do so. Would you feel comfortable if all of a sudden government came into your back yard and told you that you keep only one thing you grow and have to give the the rest away without taking into consideration that you would do so all on your own?

    Charity starts in the home not on some government spread sheet, or some fly by night passed law. It insults everyones intelligence this ACA program.

  • If it was your son, daughter or grandchildren that needed healthcare but had a preexisting condition and couldn't get insurance would you still feel the same? I truly doubt it. This ACA has helped so many people. If we can subsidize big corporations we can help the citizens of this country by helping them get the health care they need.


  • mach570-- this pic was on facebook it gives you an idea.  I lived in Germany twice for a tottal of 9 years.  They have it even better in Belgium where my brother lived for 15 years.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=728886813830352&set=a.290422841010087.83851.290318604353844&type=1&theater

    try this link and ck this out it's about Denmark.    Oh the 39 million ihate is yelling about live in states that have refused to expand medicaid.  You can't blame Obama if the Governor refuses to allow the expanshion.

     

  • ihateoxygenthieves, May 12, 2014 8:55PM

    "Hate to burst your bubble master sgt.   But there still roughly 39 MILLION without health insurance and thats only it you count the 7 million sign ups.  They still CAN'T tell us how many people actually got insurance!!!"

    I don't hate to burst yours, ihate.  Blaming Obamacare for not signing up the 39 million folks remaining without health insurance is like John Wilkes Booth blaming Lincoln for missing the last act of the play at Ford's Theater.  Over 8 million folks were signed up in the first enrollment period...which you guys said couldn't be done.  You have been wrong about everything to do with Obamacare so far...so why break your string?  

     

  • Thank You I will. By the way have you talked with a normal citizen of Denmark and asked them how they live how their health care is, whether they have the opportunity to become rich, can they buy a house anywhere they choose, or can they go anywhere they choose. Just curious

  •   Ck out denmark and how they treat their citizens.  A perfect example of a balanced capitalist/socialist economic policy.

  • Can you name the Nourthern Europen countries? I would like to research.

  • Yes 39 million dont have health insurance.yet,  They reside in states that have refused to expand medicaid to their citizens in the hope it will make The Affordable Care Act fail.  Well it hasn't failed and is a huge success.  So all the Republican Governors who refuse to expand Medicaid to their citizens are using their citizens who need health insurance as a tool in a political attack and could care less about the welfare of the citizens in their quest for power.

    One must ask, what will they do if they have control of the Government? They say they will repeal the availibility of healthcare for their citizens, stop any minimum wage raises, and continue the failed economic policy of supply side or 'trickle down ' economics which gave us the last recession.    

    Take a look at the Northern European countries.  They have policies designed to support the poor and middle class and in some cases a guarenteed income for all citizens.  Their economies are thriving and weathered the last recession quite well.  The reason they did is their middle class and poor did not lose buying power like ours did.   That buying power is what powered their economies through the bad times!

    Restoration of the buying power of the middle class and poor is the answer.  One for all not all for one should be our mantra!

  • Yes 39 million dont have health insurance.yet,  They reside in states that have refused to expand medicaid to their citizens in the hope it will make The Affordable Care Act fail.  Well it hasn't failed and is a huge success.  So all the Republican Governors who refuse to expand Medicaid to their citizens are using their citizens who need health insurance as a tool in a political attack and could care less about the welfare of the citizens in their quest for power.

    One must ask, what will they do if they have control of the Government? They say they will repeal the availibility of healthcare for their citizens, stop any minimum wage raises, and continue the failed economic policy of supply side or 'trickle down ' economics which gave us the last recession.    

    Take a look at the Northern European countries.  They have policies designed to support the poor and middle class and in some cases a guarenteed income for all citizens.  Their economies are thriving and weathered the last recession quite well.  The reason they did is their middle class and poor did not lose buying power like ours did.   That buying power is what powered their economies through the bad times!

    Restoration of the buying power of the middle class and poor is the answer.  One for all not all for one should be our mantra!

  • maybe not posting online is the problem since the Helathcare .gov site doesn't work either. Al Gore must have missed up a router somewhere when he invented the Internet.

  • PFP you forgot a few

    - cut the deficit in half by end of 1st term

    - close gitmo

    -go line by line remove all pork from legislation

    -post  bills online 5 days before he signs them

    - 1 trillion in stimulus was going to keep UE under 8% (actually went over 10%)

    etc etc etc etc etc

  • Hate to burst your bubble master sgt.   But there still roughly 39 MILLION without health insurance and thats only it you count the 7 million sign ups.  They still CAN'T tell us how many people actually got insurance!!!

  • I know right.. Google just goes blahhhhh if you use it more than twice. 

  • First it needs to recognize our spell check...what is up with that?

  • Hey Pitch that is a good idea!

  • There needs to be some font colors added to this place.. 

  • I can see it better now. YEA

  • Heyyyyy...It does make you feel good to type in bold.....who would have thought?!

    Even when you type like this .....wow!!   lol

  • I knew you was going to call them lies. Policies are embedded in the so called lies 4, 5, 6, 9,10 but you already knew those. His policies are more Exceutive Orders than actual policies. The one I hate the most is his use of the EPA to further fund this nightmare called Global Warming, I mean Climate Change ugh no I mean Climate Assessment shat I don't even know what to call this hoax any more. But the biggest whooper is his so called Affordable Health Care aka Obama Care that is only making insurance companies stock increase since he has forced people into buying "junk policies" at champagne prices.

    So typing in bold makes you feel good ugh.lmao I don't know whether to pitty you or laugh at you. laughing is good medicine though...

  • pitchforkprotester, May 6, 2014 8:50AM

    Name the one policy that makes you hate the President the most...just one.  Please be specific...I dare ya'. 

     Just one? 

     

    And you listed 10 items that were faux lies and NOT ONE POLICY  amongst them.

  • Dems want to do things to help people and Repubs want to take money from the lower class to give to corporations and the wealthy huge tax breaks hoping they will create jobs

    Really? So billionaires like Warren Buffet who is against the Keystone pipe line are worried about the middle class?

    Dems at least have something to offer and proof they will do it.  They offered health insurance to all citizens and are getting close to achieveing that goal. Their promise to reverse the decline of the middle class is what the minimum wage increase is all about.   

    So helping the insurance companies stock increase by forcing people to get insurance or face a fine is proof that the democrats care about the middle class. Oh I forgot rate increases that went right off the chart starting Oct1 2013 was also helping the middle class too.. Gotcha *thumbs up*. Increasing the minimum wage in the middle of the worse economic times of this country is not the answer. To do so will still keep lower and middle class workers from being able to buy those so called out of reach products, but hey it's a good speech but has no bang in it yet.

    Programs that help all our citizens achieve the American dream or policies that only help a special few.

    So if liberal Democrats keep things like the Keystone pipeline from going forward which would send us into the column of being independent instead of dependent-man you liberals love that word- it's helping our citizens acheive the American dream? WTF kinda dream is being a slave to government suppose to be instread of acheiving ones goals of the actual American Dream of hard work and benefits of that hard work?

    Did your grand parents get what they passed down to your parents by waiting at the mail box each month?

    Come November we will see if the citizens are still being fooled by the Republicans.

    Well results from quite a few primary's last night might be an indication that Americans are tired of the Liberal definition of the American Dream.

  • "War and occupation directly and indirectly claimed the lives of about a half-million Iraqis from 2003 to 2011, according to a groundbreaking survey of 1,960 Iraqi households. The violence peaked in 2006 and 2007, say public health experts who were part of the study

    Wonder what percentage of this finding is insurgent blame?

    When sole blame is placed onto one party engaged without Jus in bello you just gave permission to overlook the others involvement and granted Jus ad bellum when there are no grounds for granting either party that right. Cheney used his influence and grounds of preemption to go into Iraq because of Saddam's past of killing his own people and old evidence of chemical weapons and Democrats supported it too. Under Jus ad bellum regime change, which is what Cheney was driving for, was not a good reason to invade Iraq as we and our allies did in Germany during WWII. Even comparing Saddam to Hitler was also played heavily to our allies, but soon only a handful would be convinced to join in.

    The Bush administrations drum beating to rid Iraq of the Baathist party and Saddam Hussein drowned out any logical reason(s) to invade Iraq and soon found they were engaging into a war that had no connections to Jus ad bellum  and the causalty rate of American military personnel started climbing rapidly. Under the pretense of WMDs being used to Invade Iraq, as soon as evidence was found to be negative a lot said we should get out of Iraq and not continue fighting any longer. It is easy for arm chair quarterbacks to make decisions like that. Had the Bush administration pulled out once evidence was discovered that no WMDs were in Iraq what would be the image of Americans military be today? That is a difficult question to answer but I know you two will give it your best shot, but will fall short of the target answer. Keep in mind though that today with the actions being taken by the Obama adminstration and his dislike of  Americas military strength you're answers could have less impact, or be seen as biased in support of a coward that has no idea of what he is doing period.

    Yes the loss of American lives is always the hardest part of any war, but as Sherman said, "war is ****" and since America was a victim of gutless terrorists attacks I believe that taking any and all actions to protect our home by going into Iraq was a necessary action. Remember the last time a lie was told to get America involved in a war 58,000 American military personnel lost their lives. But I see no out cry from Democratic liberals over that war.

    Vietnam, which got America involved by a lie as well, should have taught every politican a lesson since they are the ones who get our military involved in wars, but sadly it didn't. The one thing that was a positive change is the treatment of returning troops from an unnecessary war like Iraq. You saw no spitting, or name calling of troops coming home this time like that from Vietnam.

    So what we have today is the Obama administration and his orders to totally withdrawal American troops from Iraq, that move opened the insurgents pathway to what? Kill and control a free people that was tasting freedom for the very first time. Obama making this move didn't allow for Jus Post Bellum  to get a firm foothold. Obama has single handily caused the reverse of all that scarfice their lives, even though it was not a just action for them to be sent there it was their duty to do so by a declaration of Congress, not a police action as the Johnson administration did for Vietnam. The differences of Vietanm and Iraq is in Iraq Jus post bellum was taking effect, where in Vietnam it was not ever given a chance.

    Both of you ukfan and Homo will disagree but the means to an end in Iraq might have been a difficult pill to swallow, but there was hope that Jus Post Bellum was well under way till Obama ordered total withdrawal of American troops. And evidence of that mistake is being played today with Afghanistan and the negotiations for American troops to keep a presences in that region.

    The body count of dead Iraqis today and from now on goes in the Obama administrations column. WIll it go past that of the Bush administrations numbers? Only time will tell, but I predict it will have no problem exceeding those numbers if it hasn't already.

     

  • Yes at the time politicians on both sides were responding to the call for war made by Bush and Cheney.  Exactly what does that have to do with the midterms?  Currently the picture is a lot clearer than it was then.  Now ( and we are voting in 2014 not the past)  it's pretty clear where they stand.   Dems want to do things to help people and Repubs want to take money from the lower class to give to corporations and the wealthy huge tax breaks hoping they will create jobs. The choice is between supply side economics, or a return to supply and demand, which has given us our greatest economic growth.   Remember we are currently in a situation where workers cannot buy what big business is selling. Republicans have shown they will cut food stamps, and all programs that support the poor and middle class to comtinue the shift of wealth to the top still hoping the wealthy they give that money to will create the jobs they have claimed will be created if we just trust them one more time!!!   That is all Republicans have to offer us.   Dems at least have something to offer and proof they will do it.  They offered health insurance to all citizens and are getting close to achieveing that goal. Their promise to reverse the decline of the middle class is what the minimum wage increase is all about.   

    The choice is clear as glass.  Programs that help all our citizens achieve the American dream or policies that only help a special few.  Come November we will see if the citizens are still being fooled by the Republicans or if they have wised up and realized the real wealth of the country lies in the middle class being strong and vibrant and able to compete in the world market.

     

  • Did you hate Bush and Cheney? They both lied in order to go to war with Iraq? That big whopper caused thousands of lives.

     Cheney more so than Bush. But then neither of you ukfan or Homo has ever, ever made mention of the Democrats that have also lied about Iraq having WMDs. So I'll go ahead and give some examples:

    1. “This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

    2. “Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

    3. “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” — Robert "KKK" Byrd, October 2002

    4. “There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

    5. “The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998

    6. “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

    7. “I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

    I'll give that some time to sink in since it appears you two have a selective memory problem.

     

  • Name the one policy that makes you hate the President the most...just one.  Please be specific...I dare ya'. 

     Just one? 

    1. Americans want higher taxes-President Obama said that 80% of Americans support including higher taxes as part of the deal.  But a Rasmussen poll taken the same week showed that only 34% believe a tax hike should be included in a debt-ceiling agreement.

    2. Mother denied health insurance-During his presidential campaign, Obama said that his mother died of cancer after being denied coverage for a preexisting condition.  He used her image in a campaign ad, repeated the claim in debates, and used the same rhetoric as President when he tried to sell ObamaCare to the American people.  But a new book by New York Times reporter Janny Scott says that Obama’s mother, Ann Dunham, had health insurance through her employer and was only denied disability insurance.

    3. Tax restraint for middle and lower class-Obama pledged during his campaign and throughout his presidency not to raise taxes on families making less than $250,000.  But ObamaCare’s individual mandate will hit many under the $250,000 mark. (Obama’s own Justice Department said the mandate was a tax, not a penalty, when it argued its constitutionality.)  Not to mention a higher federal cigarette tax and countless other “fees” in the health care law that hit the middle and lower class.

    4. Shovel-ready jobs- When Obama was selling his $787 billion stimulus package, he consistently bragged about how shovel-ready construction jobs would be funded across the nation.  Even the President later admitted that was a lie, when he told the New YorkTimes:  “There’s no such thing as shovel-ready projects.”

    5. Keep your doctor-President Obama repeatedly pledged that under his health care measure, Americans would be able to keep their doctors.  However, with rising costs, many employers will dump their health care plans and force workers into the state health care exchanges (unless you belong to one of the unions getting ObamaCare waivers.)  A survey by McKinsey & Company found that more than 30% of companies will discontinue coverage for their workers.

    6. No lobbyists-During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama said:  “We have the chance to tell all those corporate lobbyists that the days of them setting the agenda in Washington are over.  … I don’t take a dime of their money, and when I am President, they won’t find a job in my White House.”  At least a dozen former lobbyists got top jobs in his administration at the beginning of his presidency, according to Politico, and National Public Radio reported the Obama administration was granting waivers to lobbyists to circumvent the ban.

    7.  Foreign money in campaigns-During his 2010 State of the Union address, and again during the 2010 midterm elections, Obama railed against foreign money influencing U.S. elections.  The only problem was that there was no evidence to support the charge or, as Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, in the State of the Union audience, silently mouthed, “Not true.”

    8.  Arizona immigration law- During the battle over Arizona’s immigration law, President Obama said:  “Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.”  Uh, actually, Mr. President, it couldn’t.  The law would allow law enforcement officials to inquire about immigration status only when there is suspicion of a crime being committed.

    9. .  Transparency-Obama pledged that transparency would be a top priority, but his administration refused to grant one-third of the Freedom of Information Act requests, according to an Associated Press analysis.  He also was dishonest about transparency when he said that health-care negotiations would be televised on C-SPAN and that he would wait five days to sign a bill so people would have a chance to read it online.

    10. Constitutional oath- During his January 2009 inauguration, Barack Obama pledged to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,” yet he has consistently ignored the 10th Amendment giving powers not enumerated in the Constitution to the states.  Exhibit No. 1: ObamaCare.

     I whitteld you a walking stick just in case you have trouble taken a crap...

  • ukfan, May 5, 2014 10:55AM

    "Did you hate Bush and Cheney? They both lied in order to go to war with Iraq? That big whopper caused thousands of lives."

    Check that ukfan, you're underestimating it a bit there according to:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/

    "War and occupation directly and indirectly claimed the lives of about a half-million Iraqis from 2003 to 2011, according to a groundbreaking survey of 1,960 Iraqi households. The violence peaked in 2006 and 2007, say public health experts who were part of the study.

    On March 19, 2003, a U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq, beginning a ground war that culminated in the rapid capture of Baghdad and overthrow of the regime led by Saddam Hussein. A coalition-led occupation of Iraq lasted until 2011, marked by repeated bombings, an al Qaeda-linked insurgency, militia warfare, and other bloodshed in the nation of 32.6 million people.

    In the new PLOS Medicine journal survey, led by public health expertAmy Hagopian of the University of Washington in Seattle, an international research team polled heads of households and siblings across Iraq. The researchers, including some from the Iraqi Ministry of Health, aimed to update and improve past estimates of the human costs of the war and occupation.

    "We think it is roughly around half a million people dead. And that is likely a low estimate," says Hagopian. "People need to know the cost in human lives of the decision to go to war.""

     

    Now let's sit back and watch pitch crap or go blind.

  • Did you hate Bush and Cheney? They both lied in order to go to war with Iraq? That big whopper caused thousands of lives. I don't think anyone has died from the quote from President Obama.

  • pitch, "You'd be better off hiding in your bunker since what really makes you pee your pants is the truth finally coming to the surface and you don't know whether to crap or go blind for supporting your messiah. "

    So, what is holding you or any one else back from revealing the truth right now...what are you waiting for?  To crap or go blind?

  • pitchforkprotester, May 5, 2014 7:30AM

    "I don't mask anything. Your messiah is hated for his policies and actions he takes to enforce and impose those detrimental policies."

    Name the one policy that makes you hate the President the most...just one.  Please be specific...I dare ya'. 

  • I don't mask anything. Your messiah is hated for his policies and actions he takes to enforce and impose those detrimental policies. Racism is alive becasue of dis-connected, dishonorable Liberals that would rather lie and spin facts than own up to truths.

    I have no code and I sure as he!! ain't fake bubba. Liberals like yourself choose to ignore and praise a liar because you think like those who in the past supported same minded individuals feel you are safe from any or all actions a person like that does.

    You'd be better off hiding in your bunker since what really makes you pee your pants is the truth finally coming to the surface and you don't know whether to crap or go blind for supporting your messiah. 

  • pitchforkprotester, May 2, 2014 11:48PM

    "Pitch, President Obama could lay golden eggs and place them at your feet and you would still hate him...it all sounds pretty racist to me."

    "Why don't you wise up and realize that it isn't racist to not like or for that matter respect or even care for another individual that is flawed in character like your messiah. Didn't your mother ever tell you not to hang out with people that had a questionable character, or bad attitudes regardless of their skin color? Did that make her racist if the more trouble makers were white and you wanted to hang with them and she said NO?

    He's purposely lied, covered up, mislead Americans since he's been elected. In that the supporters that rally around him need to have their character brought into question regardless of their race. It is the Liberal spin that makes everything that anyone speaks out against your messiah  to be racist."

    Pitch, you are the one lying on here, not President Obama.  Everything you post about the President is a lie, fabrication or distortion.  My momma taught me to not hang around with folks like you, but even if she hadn't, I still wouldn't do it.  If Barack Obama is so bad then why do you people have to lie about him all of the time?  Your overheated rhetoric masks a more fundamental complaint about the perceived loss of white America's tribal power in an era with the first African American president.  Clearly, these demonstrations of rage are about more than public policy. Former President Jimmy Carter stepped into the fray a while back stating the obvious: "intensely demonstrated animosity" toward Obama, the 39th president said, is "based on the fact that he is a black man."  Carter said that the anger of folks like you is motivated by racial animus, saying it was behind "an overwhelming portion" of the criticisms lobbed at Obama -- it's clear not only from the street protests, but also from the rhetoric employed by the conservative media elite that racism is indeed alive. 

    I see through your facade and can read your code.

     

  • Pitch, President Obama could lay golden eggs and place them at your feet and you would still hate him...it all sounds pretty racist to me.

    Why don't you wise up and realize that it isn't racist to not like or for that matter respect or even care for another individual that is flawed in character like your messiah. Didn't your mother ever tell you not to hang out with people that had a questionable character, or bad attitudes regardless of their skin color? Did that make her racist if the more trouble makers were white and you wanted to hang with them and she said NO?

    He's purposely lied, covered up, mislead Americans since he's been elected. In that the supporters that rally around him need to have their character brought into question regardless of their race. It is the Liberal spin that makes everything that anyone speaks out against your messiah  to be racist. 

    That dawg won't hunt any more. 

  • Back when you were homo you did. This is my last post on degrading people I am above that. Bruno you have at it.

  • mach570, May 1, 2014 9:10AM

    "Now that you looked up the definition go look in the mirror everytime you call a white man whitey and gets mad when somone talks about a black man."

    Sorry, mach, but I have never called a white man "whitey", except for Whitey Bulger and Whitey Ford...do those count?

     

    Pitch, President Obama could lay golden eggs and place them at your feet and you would still hate him...it all sounds pretty racist to me.

  • Really, that is interesting.  How so?  Do you even know what a hypocrite is

    1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc.,

    Ummmm..Reminds me of someone...No don't tell me....errrrr!!!!!! OH now I remember.. It's the dude occupying the Oval Office..right?

     

  • Now that you looked up the definition go look in the mirror everytime you call a white man whitey and gets mad when somone talks about a black man.

  • mach570, April 30, 2014 12:06PM

    "Proving you are a hypocrite."

    Really, that is interesting.  How so?  Do you even know what a hypocrite is?

    hyp·o·crite [hip-uh-krit]  

    noun
    1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she doesnot actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
    2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life,opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements
    .

  • Proving you are a hypocrite.

  •  Do Republican politicians think we are stupid or sumpin’?   I bet or sumpin'!

    My only surprise is that the author seems surprised...they must be new around these parts.  It really ain't that hard for Repugs to hoodwink these hillbillies...good gawd they are shallow-end-of-the-genepool dumb!

     

  • If we were stupid, the republicans would remain in office !