State-Journal.com - "Gun Nuts' come packing

Photo By Photo by Kelly MackeyCharles Riggs tells the Frankfort City Commission his thoughts on carrying firearms in city buildings during the city commission meeting Monday. State Journal/Kelly Mackey

Kevin Miley, left, and Brian Sudduth talk outside before the City Commission meeting Monday. Miley and Sudduth attended to support the right to carry arms in a city building, something city commissioners say they never wanted to do away with.

City Commissioner Lynn Bowers and gun owners say misunderstandings led to a disagreement Monday night about the carrying of firearms.
The commission discussed last month installing a metal detector to prevent concealed firearms at public meetings. A metal detector at city hall was prompted by the deadly shooting in Kirkwood, Mo., on Feb. 7 that left two police officers and three city officials dead. A reporter and the Kirkwood mayor were also injured.
Several of the Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed attended the commission meeting Monday openly carrying firearms and wearing T-shirts featuring "Gun Nut for Public Safety."
Founding member Charles Riggs said signs and metal detectors will not deter those prepared to use a firearm to commit violence.
"Kirkwood had an absolute prohibition on firearms," Riggs said. "Those with murderous intent are not deterred by the laws of man or God." The gunman in that instance had an ongoing feud with the city and was shot to death by nearby police.
Brian Sudduth, wearing his .45 caliber Smith & Wesson in a hip holster, said he was concerned the commission would ban citizens from openly carrying firearms in City Hall. Sudduth is a concealed weapons instructor, competitive pistol marksman and hunter.
City Solicitor Rob Moore said it's legal for citizens to carry firearms in City Hall and Commissioner Lynn Bowers said nobody ever discussed banning guns from the building.
"I'm not sure that was ever the issue," she said. "It sounds like they think we were about to pass an ordinance that we are not going to have guns in City Hall. I don't think that's where the discussion was going."
Bowers said she felt the gun owners were trying to start an argument and didn't have all the facts.
"I think conclusions were jumped to, maybe on both sides," she said.
The discussion might have been less contentious, Sudduth said, if the gun advocates had approached members of the commission in person.
"We wouldn't want any member of the City Commission to feel like we offended them or put them on the spot," Sudduth said. "I know that wasn't our intent."
Bowers said she resented a statement by Riggs, who said the members of the commission were woefully uninformed.
Riggs said she was taking the comments personally and walked away from the podium before she could respond.
Bowers said she was civil with Riggs but didn't appreciate his insinuations.
The gun owners also urged the commission to repeal a 1997 ordinance that banned citizens from carrying concealed firearms in City Hall, meaning only "open carry" was allowed.
Sudduth said open carry makes it more difficult for people to defend themselves in a situation like the fatal shooting in Kirkwood. Two police officers were the first people killed in Kirkwood and Sudduth said that's because they were the most obvious threat to the gunman.
"If you allowed concealed carry they wouldn't know who could defend themselves," he said. "Open carry makes you a target."
However, Bowers and Sudduth say there's still room for dialogue if the issue comes up again.
Repairs to Briar Cliff
Other topics at Monday's commission meeting included repairs to Briar Cliff in South Frankfort, where a landslide last month caused a portion of the road to collapse.
Former City Commissioner Russ Kennedy praised the city officials and work crews for their efforts, saying there has been no interruption in essential services.
"We never missed a beat," he said.
The commission approved Monday night an emergency contract for $134,760 to Soil Nail Launcher to assist with reconstruction efforts. The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has offered to assist with the cleanup but rejected a request to provide cost-sharing assistance for the reconstruction effort.
"The door is not completely shut on this," City Manager Tony Massey said.
Condemnations to go forward
The commission also voted to initiate condemnation proceedings against five properties near the Schenkel Lane Cave. Moore said the city has obtained most of the easements required to replace the cave sewer but that the project must move forward so that bids can be advertised.
The proceedings would be filed today in court, he said. Bowers said the move is an essential part of the city's consent decree with the Environmental Protection Agency.
"We don't go around condemning properties because it's a fun thing to do," she said. "If we can't comply with the consent decree then all 27,000 of us are going to pay the price. This is not something we have a choice in."
Moore said a commission to be appointed by the court would decide the amount of damages the property owners are entitled to.

86.	Posted by mrserious May 5, 2008
	If you want a graphic demonstration of what's wrong with Rick Paul, his illness, here it is. He posted his menu to this forum and others on the SJ site, and it was removed by the State Journal because it was inappropriate, being nothing but free advertising. He won't BUY advertising from the paper. Now he's posted it here and elsewhere on this web site AGAIN. The SJ owns these pages. They can regulate the content. They saw fit to remove his menu posting. He's put it up here AGAIN. He has no respect for the property of others. He has no sense of propriety. He believes that it's okay to defy people and misuse their trademarks or publications as he sees fit. THAT'S why he's back in federal court over his abuse of the Kern's trademark. Seems Rick Paul just won't learn. Wonder if he's going to post the date and time of his court appearance so people can go watch that? From Wikipedia - Diagnostic criteria for sociopathy - Three or more of the following are required: 1) Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest. 2) Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead 3) Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults 4) Reckless disregard for safety of self or others 5) Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honour financial obligations 6) Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another. Now examine the public record of Rick Paul's behavior - stealing trademarks, breaking his agreement, bankruptcy, attacking a woman, threatening violence with a gun, repeated abuse of this website, the list goes on - and ask yourself - what's wrong with Rick Paul? Only a professional can make the diagnosis, of course, but some things are plain to see.

85.	Posted by Uknown May 2, 2008
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82.	Posted by Freedom April 2, 2008
	OH, this post has gone on and on, was not sure what the status was. My two sense or is it cents, is if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. Thats why they don't let convicted felons possess firearms. If someone is openly packing a firearm, one might think twice about aggressive violent act in the presence of the gun toter. They may then take their ill intent elsewhere. Or on the other hand, their first objective would be to neutralize the KNOWN threat (person openly packing) MAIN thought a criminal is less likely to perpetrate a crime against someone if there was a GOOD chance the targeted victim or someone in close enough proximity might pull a CONCEALED weapon and blow them away justifiably, thus sending them to the eternal celestrial dirt nap. Everyone can say they would do this or that in a certain situation, however until you are confronted in a situation I could only hope my thoughts and actions would be appropriate to the threat. If someone breaks into my house for whatever reason and I am there, sorry about their luck. I am not going to interview them to find out there intent whether it is to rob me or kill me. If they are looking for donations, they knock on the door and I can give or defer. There are people on this blog that have faced situations such as this and hopefully the appropriate action was taken. I would regret having to kill someone if it came to that but under the circumstances I mentioned I would get over the guilt. In the old west there was actually less violence because everyone knew their intended victim was probably packing openly and or concealed. The situations that occurr today such as school shootings would not be as enticing to psychos if the headlines read PSYCHO perpetrator riddled with bullet holes inflicted by petite freshman female on college campus. Instead of the ones we see today. Sorry for any grammatical errors, typos, inferences not understood, hypotheticals out of reason etc etc etc. Our country became the United States of America because of our forefathers bringing to bear the firearms of the day.